You are not logged in.

#151 2016-06-07 10:03:39

jimjamyaha
Member
Registered: 2015-01-08
Posts: 23

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

BTW - anyone got the de-interleaved original rom dumps that were done via 68MLA.  I've got all the original ones - just not the de-interleaved ones into one file (as opposed to the later de-interleaved ones ready for burning onto 4 chips) as per:

Screen_Shot_2016_06_07_at_10_51_15.jpg

Last edited by jimjamyaha (2016-06-07 10:04:36)

Offline

#152 2016-06-07 11:51:28

jimjamyaha
Member
Registered: 2015-01-08
Posts: 23

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

To follow up from the Mac OSX Public Beta about PEX Kexts - this will do nicely for some testing assuming we get past the hurdles of building replacement ROM DIMMS:

and possibly:

jimjamyaha wrote:

Done a bit more googling and found:

http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPo … eadID=5643

Using this info from my previous post:
kChipSetTypePowerSurge = 0,
  kChipSetTypePowerStar,
  kChipSetTypeGossamer,
  kChipSetTypePowerExpress,
  kChipSetTypeCore99,
  kChipSetTypeCore2001
};

Found out that:  ApplePowerStarPE.kext - platform export for Power Star Macs including the PowerBook 2400, 3400, 3500, and G3, Performa 54xx, 55xx, and 64xx, UMAX Apus, Power Mac 6500, and 20th Anniversary Mac

ApplePowerSurgePE.kext - platform expert for Power Surge Power Macs including the Power Mac 7200, 7300, 7500, 7600, 8500, 8600, 9500, and 9600 and PowerCenter

So OSX had initial support for the Mac Clones!

But most importantly:

ApplePowerExpressPE.kext - platform export for Power Express Macs - PowerMac G3 Pro?

Amusing report from: https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/to … 3/?p=28393

Bolle
    6502
    Location.eu
Posted 13 November 2007 - 05:24 PM
ApplePowerExpressPE.kext not needed... BTW: wtf? there are kexts for the PEx? yikes

Franklinstein
    6502
    LocationMildenhall, Suffolk, England
Posted 14 November 2007 - 11:12 AM
Seriously, kexts for the PowerExpress? That never made it out of prototype or initial production stage, did it? I'd love to get my hands on one regardless. Maybe somebody over at OWC had one and decided that running OS X it would kick some ass.

Last edited by jimjamyaha (2016-06-07 11:54:15)

Offline

#153 2016-06-07 14:35:36

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,084
Website

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

That seems kind of small. sad

Offline

#154 2016-06-07 14:46:51

trag
Member
Registered: 2015-01-07
Posts: 12

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

jimjamyaha wrote:

3) However, I could always test the motherboard?

The ROM DIMM slot contains both 3.3V and 5V supply pins, so examining the logic board is, alas, unrevealing.  The ROM DIMM circuit board connects the approptriate pins to its power plane depending on which voltage it needs.

A high rez photo of one of the DIMMs from which we can read a part number off of any of the chips would be dispositive.  If we can determine whether the DIMM is populated with 3.3V parts or 5V parts that would clearly answer the question.

Alternatively, James, what kind of RAM did you have installed when you had the machine working?  If it was 5V then that disperses the 3.3V RAM concern.

Last edited by trag (2016-06-07 14:50:01)

Offline

#155 2016-06-07 14:54:37

MJ313
Member
Registered: 2014-09-23
Posts: 498

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

I posted a bit on this awhile back. I would think it (RAM) was 3.3V.

"FWIW:

Dr. Bob at AF stated this:
"Power express greatly predates PC 133. He needs either Fast Paged Mode or EDO ram. We had one in the lab when I worked for apple that we used for disk testing. It really was greatly inferior tot he beige G3, which is why i never shipped."

Then this:

"it need 3.3V EDO, the 9600 uses 5V. It's keyed differently to keep you from inserting the wrong type. NB probably does'nt refer to anything relevant.

PC133, PC100, PC66 WILL NOT WORK."

Subsequent posts agree.
powersurge9600 states this at the beginning of a long post about it:
"You [Hawaii Cruser] noted on the forum that by the RAM slots is printed "NB DRAM 3.3 VOLTS". I believe this means Non-Buffered (unbuffered) DRAM 3.3 Volts, which some PCs used before PC66 SDRAM was adopted."

http://www.applefritter.com/node/6148?f … er_page=50"

Last edited by MJ313 (2016-06-07 16:25:02)

Offline

#156 2016-06-07 16:22:56

trag
Member
Registered: 2015-01-07
Posts: 12

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

Okay, needed a cool down after a walk, so sat at the old S900 and checked my old Eudora In Box....

The ROM DIMM for the PEX is definitely configured for 5V, absent some ridiculous chain of unlikely events.  The chips on board are 5V chips, and the DIMM is wired for 5V supply.

James, if you don't want our old email up for some reason let me know and I'll edit, but I think I'm safe here, it all being tech stuff.

From 12/3/2009 (for those who want to  know how to determine the voltage on your own ROM DIMMs:
====================================================

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for re-sending the e-mail.

Each side of the DIMM has eight AM28F020 and they're PLCC chips.

I've dug out your firmware module info as a guide too

In direct reply to the questions:

1) The ground pins show the same arrangement as the ones you have mentioned.

2) All of the power pins are connected as if is was running at 5V

3) PIN 122 isn't connected to ground or power, or any of the plcc chip contacts

4) PIN 116 is connected to power

Unless I'm counting wrong on the PLCC chips pin 12 is ground and pin 28 is power.

I've attached some images of the ROM DIMM with the relevant markings.

James.



From: Jeff Walther
To: James
Sent: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009 2:01:27
Subject: Re: Biege G3 ROM SIMM...

Hi James,

Here is the message from November 13.

Jeff

Hi James,

What were the memory chips on that ROM module again?  Eight AM29F020 or
AM28F020?  Are they in a DIP package (two rows of pins that go into holes)
or a PLCC (rectangle with 32 pins, 7X9X7X9) package?

The first thing to do is to check that all the pin 16 on every chip are all
connected together and similarly for pin 32.  On a DIP, pin 1 is next to
the mark on the chip.  Count down that edge and counterclockwise up the
other edge.  So pin 1 is across from pin 32 and pins 16 and 17 are down at
the other end of the chip.

For the PLCC, pin 1 is next to the little indentation and count
counterclockwise from there.

Okay, unless I'm really far off on what memory chips you told me were on
there, all the pin 16s should be for power.  All the pin 32s should be for
ground.

Remember that the ROM is a DIMM.  The connectors on the two sides are
distinct.  So there are 80 pins on each side of the DIMM.  The pins are
usually numbered at least at the ends, so that you can find 1 and 80 and 81
and 160.  If it's not labeled let me know and I'll hunt up a diagram.
It's also convenient to make a note of the pin numbers at the DIMM notches.
That can save you a lot counting.  I thought I had it in my notes, but I
don't.

The ground pins on the ROM DIMM edge connector are:

2
15
27
43
53
65
77
82
95
107
122?
123
133
145
157

You don't need to check all of them, but at least a largish sampling to
confirm that we're dealing with the same arrangement.  The pins above
should connect to the pin 32s on the chips.  Pin 122 is a special case.
Check to see whether it connects to the ground pins.

Once you've confirmed that the chip grounds are all common, you can just
check for continuity from any convenient chip pin 32 to the above pins and
once a few of those are confirmed you can just check that the above DIMM
pins are common.  Connected pins at 0 resistance are transitive after all.
:-)

Okay, the power is probably 5V but we'll double check that too.  The pin
16s on the chips should all be connected together and they should connect
to the power pins

If the power is 5V then the power pins on the chips (pin 16) should connect
to the following pins on the ROM DIMM.  Please check it:

1
9
21
41
59
71
80
81
89
101
121
139
151
160

If, on the other hand, the power is 3.3V then the following DIMM pins will
be connected to the pin 16s on the chips:

8
10
20
40
58
70
79
88
90
100
116?
120
138
150
159

Similar to pin 122, pin 116 is a special case.  Check to see whether it
connects to the other power (either 3.3 or 5V) pins or perhaps the ground
pins.  You may want to switch to resistance from continuity on your meter,
as it may connect to any of those things through a resistor.    If it does,
try to identify the resistor on the DIMM.  There shouldn't be more than a
handful of them.

Okay, I think that's enough to start.  That's most of the stuff, but
there's a bit more.  Let me know if you have any questions, or if I
misremember the type of memory chip so badly that the pin 16 and 32 thing
makes no sense.  E.g. if the memory chips are not 32 pin chips.

Jeff

Offline

#157 2016-11-24 17:39:00

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,391

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

Just checking in to see if you've had any time to look at the PEx ROM card project, trag?

Offline

#158 2016-11-29 20:38:00

trag
Member
Registered: 2015-01-07
Posts: 12

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

No.  Currentlty ealing with an explosion of personal problems.  Grrrr.

Offline

#159 2016-11-29 20:53:33

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,391

Re: PExProjRedux_II: the inevitable 2kTeens franchise reboot . .

Sorry to hear that, hope all works out well for you, trag. I'm lounging at home (playing with old hacks in lieu of starting to crawl up the walls a/or becoming a RokuTubeBoob) for about another week. Had a new belly button installed (sans jewel) on the 17th. Hopefully your problems won't require surgery.

my best, jt

Offline

Board footer

About ThinkClassic

ThinkClassic specialises in the maintenance, repair, restoration and modification of Vintage Apple and Macintosh computers. Ask questions and find answers about classic Apple desktops, laptops, accessories and peripherals.