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#1 2016-03-28 04:25:43

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Yes, this may seem peculiar (and somewhat sacrilegious on a Mac forum), but I want to know if this is possible.

By means of the unofficial Service Pack 3 (updated just a few weeks ago!) and KernelEx (seemingly dead, with the last update being in 2011), I've managed to get Seamonkey 2.0 installed (from 2010). Opera 10.63 seems promising (particularly since it still supports Win98 natively), but it, too, is from 2010, so some ultra modern sites get a little glitchy (it works surprisingly well overall, though).

So, since everyone around here are a bit less condemning of running older internet-faring software on an older OS such as Win9x, I thought I'd ask if anyone has come up with any solutions to this problem.

What I'm basically looking for is something like Classilla for Win9x.

Thanks!

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#2 2016-03-28 19:29:20

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Well, I got Opera 12.02 installed on Windows 98 SE in a virtual machine, and it is a bit glitchy, but quite usable so far. I'm using it to post this, in fact.

I wish I could get something newer working, but I suppose I'm lucky to get anything other than IE 6, which is virtually useless in this day and age.

I'll keep trying. If I can get something working that is at least from 2014, it should be good for a year or two. Ideally, though, someone should take something like Mozilla and backport some security patches to it (like Classilla). From what I can tell, no such thing exists. With KernelEx, though, one wouldn't have to target specifically 98 anyway, which should make it easier (one could in theory take FireFox 10 and patch it up so it is sorta up to par with Firefox 45). It would be nontrivial, but not impossible I'd think.

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#3 2016-03-29 00:38:08

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,085
Website

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

When you say "virtual machine" do you mean Virtual PC?

I have some notes about getting Linux LiveCDs to boot in VPC, but the short answer is that anything that requires PAE or i686+ is a non-starter, and some things just inexplicably don't work. There's a short list of distros that do work, even if they're not very fast.

KernelEx will get you as far as Firefox 10ESR, which is still a lot better than 3.6 and IE6, but I would think Opera 12 would be more advanced.
http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/wiki/Mozilla_Firefox

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#4 2016-03-29 01:20:36

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

I'm running Win98 on my Mac Pro via VMWare Fusion 7. I also have a real PC (P4 with 256 MB of RAM and 20 GB hard drive) that runs it (I used this computer, running either Windows 1.0 (yes, I did that; it was useless, but I ran it "because I could"), 3.1, 98 SE, 2000, XP (the stock OS), or Linux, from 2003-2005 (when it died during a BIOS update). I've recently restored this to it's original specs more or less (slightly faster CPU than original, but I have one that's exact I have yet to install), so maybe I can give it a try.)

Also, that's good to know about Opera 12. How many years do you think it has before it goes the way of IE6?

c

Last edited by cc333 (2016-03-29 01:27:11)


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#5 2016-03-29 06:18:18

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,085
Website

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

More than IE6 (whatever that is/was), since Presto-era Opera was very standards-compliant. (Blink-era Opera and Google Chrome are starting to go embrace-extend-extinguish again with all these prefixed CSS properties.)

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#6 2016-03-29 17:28:24

Eudimorphodon
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 524

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

i know this is a really silly question and, well, to be clear I'm not asking it because I'm intending to jump down your throat about the whole security thing but... why Windows 98? I'm just genuinely curious what it does that's better than... a burning hot poker in the eye, frankly.


Flap Different.

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#7 2016-03-29 17:44:31

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Why Windows 98? Because it was one of the first versions of Windows I'd ever used (the first was 95), and it's always been one of my favorite versions for this reason.

If I wanted, I could probably do this just as easily with Windows 2000, and end up with a far more stable and secure OS.

But doing it with 98 (or, dare I say it, ME even) is more fun smile

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#8 2016-03-29 17:56:12

Eudimorphodon
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 524

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Okay then, whatever floats your boat I guess. You have an interesting definition of "fun". wink

(I suppose technically we all do here, but still... ugh.)


Flap Different.

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#9 2016-03-29 18:36:30

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Whatever wink

It's not unlike getting OS 9 (or even OS 7 or 8) online, I guess. 98 and OS 9 are contemporaries of one another, so it's not totally weird.

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#10 2016-03-29 19:06:31

TheWhiteFalcon
Member
Registered: 2015-04-27
Posts: 504

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Windows 2000 still runs FF45 AFAIK.

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#11 2016-03-30 02:53:28

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Not without some hacking I think. I tried, and the best I could do was something in the 10.xx or 17.xx range. Maybe (it's been awhile since I tried, so I can't recall).

However, it should be possible to some recent version of Firefox going with the Windows 2000 USP (unofficial service pack) 5, if I recall.

c

Last edited by cc333 (2016-03-30 02:54:10)


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#12 2016-03-30 22:26:25

Eudimorphodon
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 524

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

For some reason this thread reminds me I should play with the latest version of ReactOS one of these days. Supposedly they've made some big advances since the last time I looked at it a few years ago, when basically the only way to install anything was to install it on real Windows first and manually copy over all the files and registry entries.


Flap Different.

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#13 2016-03-30 23:10:51

bbraun
Member
Registered: 2014-05-29
Posts: 1,064
Website

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Wow, I haven't thought about ReactOS in like a decade.  I grabbed the VM they've got for download.  It seems to boot and you can click around and stuff.  Short of participating in its development, it doesn't seem particularly useful.  Maybe slightly less so than Haiku.  But still is quite the accomplishment to get that far.

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#14 2016-03-31 02:53:02

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Indeed. It's definitely quite an accomplishment to be able to build a cleanly reverse engineered, open source clone of Windows.

Last I knew, however, it was still based on a Win2k/XP type architecture, and thus is somewhat outdated now (increasingly, useful programs are beginning to require a minimum of Vista or 7, though XP support stubbornly lingers in such mainstream applications as Firefox, but who knows for how much longer (Mozilla finally announced recently that they'll drop support for Snow Leopard through Mountain Lion, so it seems inevitable that they'll eventually drop XP as well)).

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#15 2016-03-31 15:22:20

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,085
Website

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

The calculus is somewhat different for XP: Mozilla's got too many XP users, whereas despite 10.6 being the majority of old OS X folks, 10.6-10.8 was about 1% of the userbase. Particularly for the developing world a pirated old copy of XP will get you a lot of mileage.

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#16 2016-04-01 18:28:07

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Ugh, did you have to say calculus?!

Regardless, your analysis makes sense. I'm very impressed with XP's longevity, despite having all support cut off, at least officially; there is a variant of XP called Windows POSReady2009 which is built on the same codebase, with most, if not all, updates being cross compatible, and it's supported until 2019. This undoubtedly contributes to it's remarkable tenacity.

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#17 2016-04-01 23:15:29

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,085
Website

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

That's Windows XP Embedded. It still gets support because there's a ton of mission critical devices that still use it owned by people who are willing to pay for updates.

Last edited by ClassicHasClass (2016-04-01 23:15:57)

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#18 2016-04-02 13:07:30

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Yes, I know. It's very exciting for those of us who refuse to let regular XP die smile

I remember not liking it whole heaps back when it was new (very late 2002 through early 2005) because it seemed plagued by such things as the Sasser and Blaster viruses, especially after we got our PCs online in early-mid 2004 (2k was also affected, which is largely why I ended up using 98 so much), but after SP2, things got MUCH better.

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#19 2016-04-02 22:54:20

MacOS Plus
Member
Registered: 2015-12-09
Posts: 100

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

I was never a big fan of XP either, but my favorite notebook is one of those older tablet-hybrid models that needs XP Tablet Edition for full function and driver support.  As such I appreciate very much the longevity of XP and some of the newer software that still supports XP.  The Fujitsu Lifebook T4020 is a pretty nifty machine.  Mine is a thrift store 'rescue'.

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#20 2016-04-03 03:46:49

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Yeah, I grew to like XP as Microsoft slowly improved it.

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#21 2016-04-03 06:46:30

mcdermd
Member
From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 950
Website

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

It grew on you ... like a fungus.


Daily Drivers: 27" iMac 2.8 GHz Quad-Core i7 (Late 2009), 21.5" iMac 2.7GHz Quad-Core i5 (Late 2013), 11" Macbook Air 1.6 GHz i5 (Mid-2011)
See the restored heroes here.

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#22 2016-04-03 14:44:07

Eudimorphodon
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 524

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

I dunno, I only thought XP got worse with age. It drives me crazy how sluggish the UI is, no matter how fast the computer it's running on.


Flap Different.

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#23 2016-04-03 16:12:55

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,085
Website

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

The first thing I did with an XP install was set it to the Classic theme. I still do that with the 7 Enterprise systems I use at work.

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#24 2016-04-03 17:14:10

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 562

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

Yeah, with the classic theme and Start menu enabled, XP is much nicer, and largely resembles Windows 2000.

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#25 2016-04-04 07:31:59

volvo242gt
Member
From: Duvall, WA
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 406
Website

Re: Hacking a 2015+ Web Browser onto Windows 98 SE

I'd dare say that XP Pro, when the garish stock theme is turned off and replaced with the Win2K style classic theme, is pretty much Win2K with bug fixes (and some bug additions).  Essentially an updated version of Win2K.  We have a D830 that's still chugging away on XP Pro.  UI doesn't seem very slow, however, it does take a while for the machine to start responding, since it has to load every driver (and every other miscellaneous item installed) after the desktop appears on the screen.  Seems MS likes to do things backward, loading everything after the desktop appears, whereas OS X seems to load everything while booting, just like the classic Mac OS.

On said machine, I might update it to some form of 7, once I've swapped out the Merom processor for a Penryn processor.  Contrary to what he-who-shall-not-be-named said on the other forum, my personal D830 dropped a good 20 deg F after swapping processors, even though the heatsink and thermal paste had been redone on the old Merom chip.  Probably prolonged the life of the nVidia GPU chip by doing that, since the heatsink never really was that hot.  Fan never really went full-throttle afterward with the T9500.  It'd kinda blip itself if things got warm, but it wouldn't go full-speed, unlike it did with the old 2.2Ghz T7500 while either playing Angry Birds or viewing Google Maps.

-J


68K: Q650 48/1.2G/CD
modern: Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 6GB/500G/DVD-RW, A1150 MBP 2GHz CD, 2GB/80G/DVD-RW
Pre-Mac: ][+, //e
other: iPhone 6s 128GB Space Gray

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