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#26 2015-09-23 18:06:35

bbraun
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Registered: 2014-05-29
Posts: 1,064
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Re: SE PDS card ROMs

Huh, well that's awesome it did the splash screen though.  Sounds like progress.

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#27 2015-09-23 20:55:54

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

Are you using SuperDrive or 800K ROMs in the SE?

I think I'd definitely check for activity on the output end at this point. Very few of my many Radius Cards (any?) need RadiusWare or any other driver for basic function and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if that were the case with your card. If the Radius splash screen appears on boot before the happy Mac icon, it seems to me that the card has already wedged its way into the System, check the BNC for output, you never KNOW! wink

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#28 2015-09-23 21:56:31

apm
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Registered: 2015-09-10
Posts: 19

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

I'm using the SuperDrive ROMs still. Back when the card was locking the system, I could see a signal on the scope from the BNC, which may be generated in hardware even if the card isn't fully working.

What should I expect to see if the second display is attached? In 6.0.8, I have the Monitors control panel in the System Folder but it doesn't turn up in the list, which suggests to me that it doesn't find any other monitor. Nor can I obviously move the cursor off the edge of the internal screen in any direction. I thought the Radius drivers might be a good way to get some quick feedback over whether the card is found or not.

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#29 2015-09-23 23:57:00

bbraun
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Registered: 2014-05-29
Posts: 1,064
Website

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

I'm really not sure what the intended behavior is.  The fact that it shows the splash screen seems to indicate something in the ROM is executing, but doesn't necessarily indicate anything about the card/display working.
When I run MESS' emulation of the radius FPD card with those ROMs, what I see is the internal display is essentially dead at the happymac, and the radius FPD display takes over displaying the "welcome to macintosh" screen.
So, take that with a grain of salt, because I don't know if that matches your physical card.
The FPD uses the DB9 connector and the TPD uses the BNC connector, right?  So it seems like the FPD can have some sense of whether a display is connected, where the BNC connector is just dumb and will either output or not.

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#30 2015-09-24 00:04:23

jt
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From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

I saw your post over yonder, hopefully someone will have the drivers. smile

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#31 2015-09-24 00:48:54

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

From the Mac Driver Museum:

Radius

Plus, SE, Classic Graphic and Accelerator card drivers

Filename                Description
--------                -----------------------------------------------

Accel2_9.sea.hqx        *** Accelerator CDEV Version 2.9

                           This is the Control Panel Device for the
                            Radius Accelerator 16 for the Mac Plus and
                           the Radius Accelerator 16 and 25 for the
                           Mac SE.  This archive also includes the
                           RadiusMATH Extension.

                            NOTE:  CERTAIN FEATURES OF THE ACCELERATOR
                            ARE ONLY AVAILABLE WHEN INSTALLED BY THE
                            INSTALLER.  This is only the Control Panel
                            Device.  If this is the first time you are
                            installing this version of software, we
                            recommend that you download Radius.sea.hqx.
     

CL_SEA_PL.sea.hqx        *** Classic / SE / Plus Display CDEV Version 4.1

                            This is the Control Panel for Radius Full
                            Page Display and Two Page Display Interfaces
                            for the Mac Classic, SE and Plus.

                            NOTE:  THIS SOFTWARE WILL ONLY OPERATE IN
                            CONJUNCTION WITH THE VERSION 4.4 ROM UPGRADE
                            FOR SYSTEM 7.0 COMPATIBILITY.  IT WILL NOT
                            WORK WITH VERSION 4.1 ROMS OR OLDER.
                            Instructions for finding this ROM revision
                            are in your RadiusWare manual (on or about
                            page 23).  If you have any problems locating
                            this information or wish to order new ROMs,
                            call your local Radius Dealer.

Radius.sea.hqx          *** RadiusWare Disks for Mac Classic / SE / Plus

                            This is a complete copy of RadiusWare for the
                            Mac Classic, Mac SE, and Mac Plus.  It
                            includes an installer program that will
                            determine what files your system will need to
                            work with your installed Radius Products.
                            It includes the following software:

                                  RadiusWare CDEV v.2.0
                                  Classic / SE / Plus Display CDEV v.4.1
                                  RadiusMATH v. 1.5
                                  Radius Accelerator v. 2.9
                                  Responder v. 2.0.2
                                  AppleTalk v. 56.0

                            This software is to be used for the following
                            Radius Products:

                            Accelerator 16 and 25 for the Mac SE

                            Full Page Display Interfaces for Mac
                            Classic, Mac SE and Mac Plus

                            Two Page Display Interfaces
                            for the Mac SE.

                            It also provides System 7 compatibility for
                            these products in conjunction with the proper
                            version of ROMS.

                            NOTE:  SOME OF THIS SOFTWARE WILL ONLY WORK
                            UNTIL YOU HAVE THE PROPER VERSION OF ROMS.
                            Please use the instructions for finding the
                            ROM revisions located in your RadiusWare
                            manual.  Once you have this information, call
                            your local Radius Dealer or Radius Technical
                            Support and confirm whether it is current.

                            NOTE:  This file is large in size and will
                            take a long time to download.

         

sePatch.sea.hqx         *** System 7.01/7.1 Patch for SE Accelerators

                            This archive contains the patch for the
                            Radius SE accelerator and System 7.01/7.1.
                            To install, take the "020 SE Accelerator Patch"
                            and place it in the extensions folder and
                            reboot.  Be sure to read the README file once
                            you have extracted the archive.

                            NOTE:  Plus Accelerator users, this patch has
                            been found to be unstable with 7.01 and
                            incompatible with 7.1.

I was goofing around and figured having the verbiage from the driver museum might be helpful. Now I need to dig out the Radius Rocket stuff, I think my Radius 16 Accelerator's RadiusWare Disk may just have what you need  .  .  .  or not. :-/

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#32 2015-09-24 01:57:58

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

OOPSIE!!!! roll  I thought I'd replied over here, but it was in a place that shall go unmentioned.

Couldn't find the RadiusWare floppy, but I found all the documentation for the Radius16 that went down the storage room whirlpool inside its SE ten years ago. On a HDD from well before that, in the driver downloads folder, I found the Installer set for the Radius FPD, my Eleanor going on almost three decades now.

RadiusFullPage.smi.hqx
RadiusFullPage.smi.sit

I've transferred these files to the Win7 NetBook via Zip100 SneakerNet. Will either format suffer attachment to an email to arrive unscathed?

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#33 2015-09-24 03:20:28

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 571

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

The .hqx file stands the best chance of surviving the transference intact, as I think it's specifically meant to protect the resource forks of the files contained therein when they're being stored on filesystems that don't support such things.

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#34 2015-09-24 14:57:40

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

THX, cc, .hqx sent. We'll see if it works! smile

Unknown_K posted a link to what might be the entire Mac Driver Museum archive? Whatever the hell a .TAR file is, 106MB in that format is now on this HDD!

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#35 2015-09-24 19:02:07

mcdermd
Member
From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 965
Website

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

Tape ARchive. Standard *nix archive format.


Daily Drivers: 27" iMac 2.8 GHz Quad-Core i7 (Late 2009), 21.5" iMac 2.7GHz Quad-Core i5 (Late 2013), 11" Macbook Air 1.6 GHz i5 (Mid-2011)
See the restored heroes here.

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#36 2015-09-24 19:28:21

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

cool Somebody needs to bust that puppy up and host the archive in chunks that'll fit on 1.44MB or 800K floppys. Unknown_K just confirmed my suspicion!

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#37 2015-09-24 19:51:22

bbraun
Member
Registered: 2014-05-29
Posts: 1,064
Website

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

I put a copy of the extracted archive here: http://users.mac68k.info/macdrivermuseum/ although it doesn't have much in the way of navigation.  The radius stuff is here

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#38 2015-09-24 19:57:00

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

Nice! Can an archive of the verbiage from TMDM be put up as well. Then we can read through the info as I posted above to find the filenames to look for in the archive. I use gamba2 much the same way, find the filename for the manuals/DevNotes and then google for the files. Searching within the archive ought to make navigation easier.

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#39 2015-09-24 20:28:22

bbraun
Member
Registered: 2014-05-29
Posts: 1,064
Website

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

I dunno man, I just work here.  That's what was in the archive.

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#40 2015-09-24 23:21:05

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

Cool beans, that's the only way I've ever seen the stuff presented. Should have looked before I typed, everything seems to be as was already! Nice job, bb!

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#41 2015-09-25 00:04:41

apm
Member
Registered: 2015-09-10
Posts: 19

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

Very useful finds! RadiusFullPage.smi.hqx has the control panel for the Plus and SE displays.

And it almost works. With "Classic/SE/+ Display" installed along with the card, I get the Radius icon in the lower left on the welcome screen, as I might expect. But before it reaches the desktop it gets stuck in an endless system error loop, drawing the box over and over again. Take the card out, and the icon goes away along with the crashing problem.

The notes (both copied on this thread and in its readme) say this version of the software needs ROM v4.4 to work on the SE. I'm running v4.1 now. v4.4 was the version I removed because it was hanging the system.

So, it looks like I either need to find an older version of this same software, or someone who has an image of the v4.4 ROMs in case mine were corrupted. Either one sounds a bit challenging....

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#42 2015-09-25 00:40:56

bbraun
Member
Registered: 2014-05-29
Posts: 1,064
Website

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

It looks like Radius.sea.hqx says it contains support for TPD/FPD for the SE, and doesn't have the warning about ROM version 4.1.  I imagine that means it also doesn't work with System 7 though.

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#43 2015-09-25 02:32:20

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

If your card has the BNC output equivalent the 68Hz FPD, my guess is that it could well be a System 6 only (unless the stars and planets are aligned just so) kinda deal. Which Systems have you tested thus far? Not to be repetitive, but it looks like 7.1 might be the glass ceiling from the way I read things. The only spec I've seen you post was 6.0.8, have you tried others? I'd be using 6.0.8 and 7.0.1 with the tuneup as that's what I used with my radius accelerators back in the day. You can try vanilla 7.1 as well, I've got that working with the Rocket now, but there's no way in hell I would have ever budged from 7.0.1* for the SE/Radius16.

IIRC, Radius made DE-9(?) interface connector FPD/TPD cards for the SE before System 7 was released when the 75Hz FPD had replaced the 68Hz original. There's a whole lot of crazy Q&A info in the Vintage Radius Documents on mainlyneatstuff.

I think I've got hard copies of Radius' FAXback line pages on everything I was interested in back in the day. I have some compatibility matrices that might not be in that archive, but not sure. Most of what I've got seems to be there.




e: RadiusFullPage.smi.hqx Is that one of the files in the archive? I didn't notice it in there, might it be from another source?

Last edited by jt (2015-09-25 02:39:00)

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#44 2015-10-03 22:52:52

apm
Member
Registered: 2015-09-10
Posts: 19

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

I finally got around to trying 7.0.1 (I was working with 6.0.8 before)-- trying from Floppy Emu on both floppy and HD20 mode. With the card installed and the v4.1 ROMs, it hangs on Welcome to Macintosh. Remove the card and the machine boots. A SCSI drive with 7.1 from another machine also doesn't boot. I didn't get to the point of installing the Radius driver on any of these, and the info on the Mac Driver Museum suggests that the v4.4 ROM update (i.e. the ones I originally had) is needed for System 7 compatibility.

So no luck there. To really check this card, I would need to scrounge an even older version of the Radius drivers, or another copy of the v4.4 ROM images.

On a different note, this SE has major floppy drive issues: it doesn't recognise any disks in one drive, spits them out immediately in the other, and if I disconnect the drives entirely, I get phantom "disk unreadable" messages repeatedly until I turn the system off. Sounds like the next step should be replacing the Bourns filter. I wonder if this could even be the root cause of the Radius card problems?

[jt: the RadiusFullPage.smi.hqx file is in the video/knighttech folder.]

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#45 2015-10-04 03:08:26

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,407

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

.  .  .  then that's probably where I got it! smile

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#46 2015-10-07 19:14:33

apm
Member
Registered: 2015-09-10
Posts: 19

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

I replaced the Bourns filter, which has improved some of the issues but didn't make much difference with the Radius card. System 7.0.1 still hangs with the card installed whether or not the drivers are enabled (boots fine without the card), and the original 4.4 ROMs still leave the machine frozen at startup.

I think it's time to give up on this card for a while. Maybe at some point I'll find another one I can try for comparison.

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#47 2015-10-07 19:39:55

bbraun
Member
Registered: 2014-05-29
Posts: 1,064
Website

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

The good news is it seems like the card is working with the 4.1 ROMs, just those ROMs don't work with System 7.
It kind of seems like the 4.4 ROMs are bad, which has been known to happen.  I'm more familiar with failed ROMs in the Commodore world than the Mac world, but they are known to fail with age.  I just haven't seen where it might be bad in the dumps.

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#48 2015-10-08 22:28:19

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

I wonder honestly if ROMS havent started off as PROMs, meaning they are eproms without the window, so it suffers bitrot.

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#49 2015-10-08 22:39:22

apm
Member
Registered: 2015-09-10
Posts: 19

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

Well they still are EPROMs in fact-- the window is under the sticker. It could be bitrot, but it seems unlikely it would affect both chips evenly and systematically enough that the disassembly still looks plausible (and the CPU returns from the ROM routine before it hangs).

Not sure I'm going to solve this one until I have another copy of the ROMs, another card, or a really old version of the driver that can deal with the 4.1 ROMs.

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#50 2015-10-08 22:48:34

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: SE PDS card ROMs

Not entirely. all it takes is 1 bit flip. your done. Been there done that.

Last edited by techknight (2015-10-08 22:48:55)

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