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#151 2015-12-07 00:24:35

iMic
Administrator
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 897
Website

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

A member over at the MacOS9Lives discussion forum has started tearing apart the system to find out what holds up some machines, which presumably would include the Mac Mini, but it's still being worked on at this point.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2727.0


Resident Professor of Alternative Methodology
Faculty of Macintosh Restorations & Modifications - "It works, let's fix it!"

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#152 2015-12-07 00:30:55

Kalzifer
Member
Registered: 2015-12-06
Posts: 2

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Ok, so patience is still required. But thank you anyway for the quick response! smile

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#153 2016-01-02 20:33:07

danielcbit
Member
Registered: 2016-01-02
Posts: 1

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Hi everybody.

I'm new here but I have being following this thread for a while.

I recently got a iMac G4 6,1 of 15"(1 GHz) so that I could have a little piece of Apple history in my home (call me nostalgic big_smile). But after I found that I could run Mac OS 9.2.2 in it I had to do It and thanks to iMic and a Mac_OS_9.2.2_Unsupported_G4s iso I found at Macintosh Garden I installed it almost effortlessl in my "new" iMac.

Although things are running quite ok I'd like to know from iMic if he had any chance into digging deeper in making the Geforce 4 MX GPU sing on 9.2.2.

I'm running the 10.2.1v1 Macintosh ROM iMic released and I have already installed the latest nvidia drivers available form MacOS9Lives.com, but still can't go higher than 256 colors mode.

I also start to poke the innards os Mac OS 9 extensions and Open ROM.

Hope I can contribute to have a better Working iMac with Mac OS 9.2.2.

Thanks

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#154 2016-01-09 16:31:58

iMic
Administrator
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 897
Website

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Haven't looked into the GeForce cards at this stage, mostly because I never figured out how on earth nVidia made their drivers work. ATI's were a lot easier. That said my success with this project was almost entirely trial and error rather than from actual experience with reverse engineering code (of which I have none).


Small update, I've managed to track down a 1.0GHz 15" AlBook with hardware that should be similar enough to the iBook G4 to serve as a testbed machine. It has a Radeon 9600 GPU and a PowerPC 7447, so some Open Firmware modifications would be required to support the CPU, but if I can find time to start hacking around that CPU limitation this would be a great machine to test with.

There have been some talks about carrying the project further over on the MacOS9Lives forums but it looks like they're branching out their own way, that is improving OS 9 on hardware it already supports instead of trying to make it run on newer boards.


Resident Professor of Alternative Methodology
Faculty of Macintosh Restorations & Modifications - "It works, let's fix it!"

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#155 2016-01-11 19:57:28

nanopico
Member
Registered: 2016-01-11
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

I've taken it on to update OS 9 over at MacOS9Lives, but rest assured, I do plan to be trying to get machines currently still unsupported to run.  A lot of the work iMic has done is absolutely fantastic and it is what inspired me to dig very deep into the OS to see what we can get it to run on.

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#156 2016-01-12 04:47:28

MacOS Plus
Member
Registered: 2015-12-09
Posts: 110

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

I really appreciate what you guys are doing to further the OS 9 project.  After a number of attempts I finally got an account activated today at the MacOS9Lives forum under the same user name as here and I'm really excited about getting involved in the conversation.  2016 should prove to be a very interesting year!

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#157 2016-01-12 14:27:27

iMic
Administrator
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 897
Website

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

nanopico wrote:

I've taken it on to update OS 9 over at MacOS9Lives, but rest assured, I do plan to be trying to get machines currently still unsupported to run.  A lot of the work iMic has done is absolutely fantastic and it is what inspired me to dig very deep into the OS to see what we can get it to run on.

I started up my testing machine this afternoon to revisit all the work that had been completed so far, and I'm still proud of how far we managed to come with this project in a relatively short span of time. At the same time I wish I could have continued working on it and seen it through to completion. Having to bow out of it and running this website due to some unforeseen factors wasn't an easy decision to make.

So I can't express my appreciation enough that you've come on board to help see this project along.


Resident Professor of Alternative Methodology
Faculty of Macintosh Restorations & Modifications - "It works, let's fix it!"

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#158 2016-01-17 22:04:42

phreak
Member
From: Hobart, Tasmania
Registered: 2016-01-17
Posts: 1

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

First of all, thanks heaps for all the help here, especially from iMic. I've managed to get an unsupported eMac G4 booting 9.2.2 from MacOS9lives.com. The model is PowerPC6,4 and is 512MiB with a PPC 1.25ghz processor.

I needed to:
- Delete Apple multiprocessing
- Edit NVRAM to
   - Change processor ID
   - Disable display mirroring so the image fills the screen.

I've always wanted a proper, classic Mac. I got this primarily for my 5yo, as there is a dearth of edutainment software on newer machines. The problem is, the majority runs in 256 colour mode. I am unable to set my monitor to 256 colours.

I'm not quite sure why this is - I'm guessing it's to do with the phantom screen that is  connected?

iMic, I note you managed to get this working on a laptop, can you share your methodology - I'm quite technical and could probably get there given enough time and info. Otherwise, is there anything I can provide you with for you to do an updated rom, if that is indeed what's needed?

Many thanks again.


2013 Mac Pro, 2015 15" RMBP, 2015 13" MBA, eMac 1.25ghz (running 9.2.2!)

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#159 2016-01-23 02:43:39

puraki
Member
Registered: 2015-03-26
Posts: 2

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

I tried the unmodified Mac OS 9.2 CD on my PowerBook5,7 with the cpu-version and model identifier Open Firmware hack. I do get past the "DO-QUIESCE" screeen. However, as soon as MacOS loads the Open Transport extension, the computer freezes and the pointer turns into a bomb. The same with extensions off, although a little later in the boot process.

--Puraki

Edit: Has anyone with a PowerBook 6,8 or 5,6 or 5,7 tried using MacsBug along with MacOS 9.2 on that model? Using MacsBug could give some insight into what hangs those PowerBooks.

Last edited by puraki (2016-01-24 16:29:14)

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#160 2016-03-09 14:59:00

kikyoulinux
Member
Registered: 2016-03-09
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Hello,
I tried the hacked cd image from macos9lives on my iBook G4(early 2004) and OS 9 hard drive appeared on startup manager.
But booting it off turned out a gray screen, no happy mac nor "starting up". I tried hack the OpenFirmware to change model ID but it neither worked.
I don't know what's goin' on.

My Mac spec:
CPU: PowerPC G4 1.07GHz
RAM: 1.25GB
Graphics: ATi Mobility Radeon 9200 with 32M VRAM
HDD: 40G
Network: built-in Ethernet and AirPort Extreme

Best regards,
Kikyo.

Last edited by kikyoulinux (2016-03-09 15:34:17)

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#161 2016-03-10 06:55:10

kikyoulinux
Member
Registered: 2016-03-09
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Well, I tried to change the cpuid to 7455.
The computer booted the cd and I saw the os9 desktop though it ran in 640x480x8.
I restored the installation image to the hard drive and the system folder on hard drive was blessed.
But it never reached the desktop when booting system folder on the hard drive. The system crashed as the progress bar went to the end, even with all extensions disabled(holding space bar during startup).
I'll try other images...

Edit:
I foget to remove the Multiprocessors Extension. Now I'm enjoying the Mac OS 9 on hard drive.

Last edited by kikyoulinux (2016-03-10 13:08:24)

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#162 2016-03-11 22:57:26

ebones5
Member
Registered: 2016-03-10
Posts: 3

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Hey guys,
This is about as far as I have gotten on my iBook G4 14 1.42 GHz.
tmp_23351_DSC_03361994926913.jpg
I have used the NVRAM tweaks but then this is as far as it gets, after this the cursor changes to the kernel panic bomb and hangs. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Phil

Last edited by ebones5 (2016-03-11 23:00:40)

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#163 2016-03-11 23:39:27

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,112
Website

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

There are a lot of problems with late iBook G4s. It's probably a variant of the known DO-QUIESCE issue, which is not currently well understood.

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#164 2016-03-12 21:46:42

ebones5
Member
Registered: 2016-03-10
Posts: 3

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

I have a question, does the drive have to be formatted in a certain way before you can boot the CD? Or can I just run the OS 9 CD with a drive containing OSX 10.4?

Thanks
Phil

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#165 2016-03-12 23:11:28

cc333
Member
From: North S.F. Bay Area, CA
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 578

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

The hard drive needs to be formatted with the "Mac OS 9 Drivers Installed" option checked in Disk Utility, otherwise, OS 9 won't be able to boot from it.

You should be able to boot from the OS 9 CD, though (provided all the appropriate OF commands have been entered and stored in NVRAM).

c


Main Macs: Early '09 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 13"
Secondary Macs: Early '08 Mac Pro, Mid '12 MacBook Pro 15"
Playthings: Mac SE/30, 3.0 GHz Mavericks-based HackServe, Many others....
Desired: Lisa, Kanga PowerBook G3, Apple IIc, Apple II, Spare parts, etc.

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#166 2016-03-13 04:29:10

kikyoulinux
Member
Registered: 2016-03-09
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Here's the script that I use to modify nvram. Thanks, iMic and blemk.

#!/bin/sh
echo Enabling OS 9 booting...
echo "You may have to enter your password"
# Use nvram command to setup nvramrc with script to make open firmware changes
sudo nvram nvramrc='" /" select-dev
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " model" property
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property
00000000 " graphic-options" get-my-property 2drop !
unselect

" /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0" find-package if drop " /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0" find-device 80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property then

device-end \ PLX-OS9-PATCH
'
# Enable use of nvramrc on boot. Change to "false" if you want to disable again. Or just clear/reset nvram.
sudo nvram "use-nvramrc?"=true
echo done.

Run this script then I can install OS 9 disk drive with Tiger installation disk.

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#167 2016-03-13 05:21:33

iMic
Administrator
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 897
Website

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

ebones5 wrote:

I have a question, does the drive have to be formatted in a certain way before you can boot the CD? Or can I just run the OS 9 CD with a drive containing OSX 10.4?

Thanks
Phil

The format on the internal hard disk shouldn't affect the ability to boot the machine from CD.



kikyoulinux wrote:

Here's the script that I use to modify nvram. Thanks, iMic and blemk.

~

Run this script then I can install OS 9 disk drive with Tiger installation disk.


The PowerBook4,3 identifier could potentially cause some problems as OS 9 / OS X will then expect a G3 processor and architecture to be present (PowerBook4,3 is an iBook G3). I recall some instances while I was testing that this caused some minor issues, so if you find certain features not working or your machine is unable to start up, substitute the PowerBook4,3 for whatever model identifier your machine happens to use.

OS X Disk Utility doesn't check the model identifier, only if MacRISC and MacRISC2 are present. So substituting the "PowerBook4,3" in that script with your machine's native model identifier shouldn't break the ability to format disks with OS 9 drivers. Of course if you can boot from the OS 9 for Unsupported Macs CD and format using Drive Setup, that has no model checks whatsoever and automatically formats the drive with OS 9 drivers no matter what.


Resident Professor of Alternative Methodology
Faculty of Macintosh Restorations & Modifications - "It works, let's fix it!"

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#168 2016-03-23 11:33:17

kikyoulinux
Member
Registered: 2016-03-09
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

nathan wrote:

I can confirm this works with my Late 2004 iBook G4, however with a few caveats. Here's what I did to get it working:


Caveats:
1. Brightness controls seem to be backwards. Pressing the brightness down key displays the brightness lowering in the OSD, but raises the brightness of the display, and vice versa. That's why when you first start the installation after changing out the ROM, the screen is completely off.


This also happens on my iBook G3 700. Though it supports OS 9 natively, with some versions of Mac OS ROM(unmodified), the brightness controls goes backwards.

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#169 2016-04-04 15:44:06

nanopico
Member
Registered: 2016-01-11
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

For anyone following this.

I did integrate the fix for the nvram script into the ROM now so that you don't have to do that. Which is good so if you ever have to reset pram or your pram battery goes dead you don't have to remember to re-do the script.

This was added to the  ROM created by iMic and all his fabulous work so we are still moving forward.

This has not been fully tested yet so this is provided as is and I'm not responsible for anything good or bad that happens to your machine as a result of this ROM.


You can download it at
http://gnerder.com/files/rom.sit

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#170 2016-06-17 14:33:47

nanopico
Member
Registered: 2016-01-11
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

ClassicHasClass wrote:

There are a lot of problems with late iBook G4s. It's probably a variant of the known DO-QUIESCE issue, which is not currently well understood.

DO-QUIESCE is that the CHRP script ran correctly and passed execution off to the trampoline/early boot code. Essentially it is choking on some hardware.
You can enable debugging and it will spit out a bunch of stuff until it get's to the hardware it doesn't like and it will halt.  You then know what hardware it doesn't like.
It won't fix it, but you can at least identify the unhappy hardware device and start to look at it.

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#171 2016-06-17 14:43:17

nanopico
Member
Registered: 2016-01-11
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

ebones5 wrote:

Hey guys,
This is about as far as I have gotten on my iBook G4 14 1.42 GHz.
http://s10.postimg.org/tdqkq34xh/tmp_23351_DSC_03361994926913.jpg
I have used the NVRAM tweaks but then this is as far as it gets, after this the cursor changes to the kernel panic bomb and hangs. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Phil


I had this same issue and have now solved it.
It's hanging on the sound device.
It doesn't like it for some reason.
The compatible property on
/pci@F2000000/mac-io/i2s/i2s-a  is set to i2sbus.
OS 9 knows about this, but some properties are missing so it hangins trying to start the sound manager.
If you change that property to some other known sound device it work, but you will have no sound what-so-ever.

Here is what you can do in open firmware to disable that.

dev /pci@F2000000/mac-io/i2s/i2s-a
" screamer" encode-string " compatible" property

If you still have the multiprocessor extensions enabled it will hang up right before it goes to the desktop.
Only this hang up is much worse as it causes a lot of the interrupt controller to be disabled so you can't drop to a debugger. 

There seems to be a lot of extension that really don't play well on this machine.  I'm currently working on figuring that one out.

Also all the ATI drivers out there cause it to hang. 
At this point you need to make sure there is nothing relate to ATI in the extensions folder.
Then in open firmware you can do the graphic-options hack to make the screen use the full resolution.

Once booted the track pad is so slow it's unusable to me. I use an external mouse so I don't go crazy.


If you want to follow the status on the iBook I'm documenting it at

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.ph … 744.0.html

(I hope it's okay to post that link.  If not I'm sorry.)

Last edited by nanopico (2016-06-17 14:44:46)

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#172 2016-06-18 15:51:53

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,112
Website

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Interesting work. I'll have to look at that on mine.

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#173 2016-06-19 17:48:31

nanopico
Member
Registered: 2016-01-11
Posts: 5

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

I have also got the xserve booting and running OS 9. Although the ATA controller for the drives does not yet work.

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#174 2016-06-20 01:15:57

bbraun
Member
Registered: 2014-05-29
Posts: 1,064
Website

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

On the xserve is pretty good!  I'll have to give that a try with my g4 xserve.
It'll be a good alternative to the Marathon iRack.

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#175 2016-06-20 21:19:04

MacOS Plus
Member
Registered: 2015-12-09
Posts: 110

Re: Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware

Slightly more detail on the Xserve situation:

  I was helping nanopico sort this out because I have two Xserve G4 Rev. 1 "Tray-load" machines at my disposal.  He figured out that the 9.2.2 CD with the modified ROM file will boot this machine from the internal optical drive so long as the main ATA controllers for the caddy drives are disabled.  I took this a step further this past weekend by booting the CD from an external firewire DVD drive, installing to an external firewire SSD, and then booting from the SSD.  It's fast, and everything works including sleep mode with the exception of the disabled ATA controllers and the front-panel CPU usage guages (which seem to be software driven by OS X).  All firewire, USB and ethernet ports work as do all the PCI slots.  It also works with AGP video cards via the alternate riser.  Multiprocessing works, and it also played nice with my 32-bit-based Magma PCI-PCI 4-slot expansion chassis and an Adaptec AHA-2940U2W SCSI card.  PCI video even worked well when placed in the Magma, although with slightly reduced benchmarking (this may only have been due to the expansion chassis bus running at 33MHz).

Tested with the following video cards working in open firmware and all the way through to the OS 9 desktop:

- Rage128 Pro AGP 16MB (acceleration not working due to some sort of driver issue)
- Radeon 7000 PCI 32MB (acceleration working)
- Radeon 9200LE PCI 128MB (acceleration working)

  If you count the modified MacOS boot ROM on the CD, enabling boot on the Xserve essentially required only three lines of code.  It should boot from pretty much any device on any bus.  We are still looking into the issue with the main Promise ATA controllers because the very same chip was used prior on a card from Sonnet that was supported in OS 9 without additional drivers.  It may be as simple as the Promise firmware being slightly different in the Xserve, which should be fixable one way or another.  We're also trying to determine if the serial port is accessible for general usage rather than purely as a diagnostic port.

  I'll post pics eventually once I get through some additional testing.

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