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#1 2014-10-03 17:00:43

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

I was given a Sonnet 500 Mhz G3 card for the 6500/5500/TAM model.

Well, its dead in the water. appears to have had a reflow at one time in the past, some of the parts appeared to have fallen off or missing at one point.

Anyway, I replaced the missing parts and got the Core volage back, which is 2VDC. Stuck it in the TAM, but it froze up as soon as the Sonnet extension loaded. the card started getting warm at that point. So i knew that it at least could see the card's presence. But the CPU or cache is bad causing a freeze.

So upon further inspection and cleanup, i found a shorting blob on the CPLD so that could have been 1 reason. I fixed that.

Then I decided to remove the cache RAM on a hunch. I know the cache has known problems in the G3 stuff, like the lombard. Etc...

So, Glad I did! I found a rotten VIA underneath one of the cache RAMs. there are no caps on this board to leak.

So then I got to looking, it appears the sonnet sticker is directly on the other side of the board. I am guessing the sticker glue is starting to break down and corrode/eat out the vias.

First I thought maybe it was cut from the factory, but there are no tooling marks, so i know it wasnt a cut. Plus that broken connection is data port D, bit 0. So thats right smack dab in the middle of the 64-bit bus for the processor. So its probably detecting a cache error and freezing. but I dunno.

I am going to leave the cache off of it. So i believe it will still work, just not have any cache.

any thoughts?


20141003_084700.jpg?dl=0
20141003_085846.jpg?dl=0
20141003_101036.jpg?dl=0
20141003_101059.jpg?dl=0

But if the CPU is actually bad, it would be a perfect opportunity to grab my scrap iBook G3 900Mhz board and steal its cache/CPU. Make it 900Mhz. Muahahahahaa. Moar powerrrrrr!! (Sorry, i dont think so tim).

Last edited by techknight (2014-10-03 19:34:32)

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#2 2014-10-03 18:31:39

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,404

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

LOL! At first I was ready to suggest moving the goodies to a 400MHz board, but now I've got visions of clock multipliers and 900MHz parts running on 250-400MHz Crescendos dancing in my head! roll

The L2 Cache is asynchronous, no?

That looks like an appearance challenged NewerTech heat sink, I prefer pretty purple parts! smile

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#3 2014-10-03 18:57:20

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

LOL.. no.. that headsink is actually from a plasma TV. Its just propping the board up off the bench while I heatgun the burst RAM ICs off.

I cannot find the developer notes for the 6500 series, So I dont know what the pin diagram is for that slot. I would love to know.

I seriously am considering dropping the 900mhz PPC chip in there along with its cache, I doubt I Can clock it that high, but at least its in there. lol.

Last edited by techknight (2014-10-03 18:59:45)

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#4 2014-10-03 19:17:35

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,404

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

SHAZAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! big_smile

Pin Signal name Pin Signal name Pin Signal name Pin Signal name
1 +5 V 41 A15 81 D63 (LSB) 121 A16
2 D31 42 A13 82 D62 122 A14
3 D30 43 +3.3 V 83 D61 123 A12
4 D29 44 A11 84 GND 124 A10
5 D28 45 A9 85 D60 125 A8
6 D27 46 A7 86 D59 126 GND
7 +5 V 47 A5 87 D58 127 A6
8 D26 48 A3 88 D57 128 A4
9 D25 49 +3.3 V 89 D56 129 A2
10 D24 50 A1 90 GND 130 A0 (MSB)
11 D23 51 /WT 91 D55 131 /DBB
12 D22 52 /GBL 92 D54 132 GND
13 +5 V 53 reserved 93 D53 133 /CPU_BG
14 D21 54 /SRESET 94 D52 134 /CPU_BR
15 D20 55 +3.3 V 95 D51 135 L2_PRSNT
16 D19 56 TTYPE0 96 GND 136 reserved
17 D18 57 TTYP1 97 D50 137 TSIZ0
18 D17 58 TTYPE2 98 D49 138 GND
19 +5 V 59 TTYPE3 99 D48 139 TSIZ1
20 D16 60 TTYPE4 100 /L2_DIS 140 TSIZ2
21 /L2_BR 61 +3.3 V 101 /TBST 141 SHD
continued
C H A P T E R 4
Expansion Features
Second-Level Cache DIMM 51
Table 4-7 defines the signals on the L2 cache DIMM connector.
22 /L2_BG 62 D15 102 GND 142 D47
23 TC0 63 D14 103 /CI 143 D46
24 TC1 64 D13 104 /RSRV 144 GND
25 +3.3 V 65 D12 105 reserved 145 D45
26 /HRESET 66 D11 106 /MEM_INHIBIT 146 D44
27 /TEA 67 +5 V 107 /AACK 147 D43
28 /TS 68 D10 108 GND 148 D42
29 GND 69 D9 109 /TA 149 D41
30 SYS_CLK 70 D8 110 /ARTRY 150 GND
31 +3.3 V 71 D7 111 /ABB 151 D40
32 A31 (LSB) 72 D6 112 A30 152 D39
33 A29 73 +5 V 113 A28 153 D38
34 A27 74 D5 114 GND 154 D37
35 A25 75 D4 115 A26 155 D36
36 A23 76 D3 116 A24 156 GND
37 +3.3 V 77 D2 117 A22 157 D35
38 A21 78 D1 118 A20 158 D34
39 A19 79 +5 V 119 A18 159 D33
40 A17 80 D0 (MSB) 120 GND 160 D32
Table 4-7 Signal descriptions for L2 cache DIMM connector
Signal name Description
+5 V Power supply voltage of +5 volts for tag RAM (5% tolerance)
+ 3.3 V Power supply voltage of +3.3 volts for data RAM (5% tolerance)
GND Ground
A(0-31) Processor address bus signals 0 through 31
D(0-63) Processor data bus signals 0 through 63; sampled on the rising edge
of the CLK signal during a write cycle
/AACK Address acknowledge, same as AACK_ signal on PowerPC 603

__________________________________________________________

Expansion Features
52 Second-Level Cache DIMM
/ARTRY Address retry, same as ARTRY_ signal on PowerPC 603
/ABB Address bus busy, same as ABB_ signal on PowerPC 603
/CI Cache inhibit, same as CI_ signal on PowerPC 603
/CPU_BG Bus transaction granted, same as BG_ signal on PowerPC 603
/CPU_BR Bus transaction requested, same as BR_ signal on PowerPC 603
/DBB Data bus busy, same as DBB_ signal on PowerPC 603
/GBL Global transaction
/HRESET Main logic board hardware reset
/L2_BG Bus grant to L2 cache; used only in copyback mode
/L2_BR Bus request from L2 cache; used only in copyback mode
/L2_DIS Disables cache when low; contents are invalidated
L2_PRSNT L2 cache present; tied directly to power rail on cache DIMM
/MEM_INHIBIT Indicates L2 cache will source the data for the current cycle.
Inhibits main logic board memory controller.
/RSRV Reservation signal, same as RSRV_ signal on PowerPC 603
reserved DO NOT USE
SHD Share
/SRESET Soft reset, same as SRESET_ signal on PowerPC 603
SYS_CLK System clock, same as SYSCLOCK signal on PowerPC 603
/TA Transfer acknowledge, same as TA_ signal on PowerPC 603
/TBST Transfer burst in progress, same as TBST_ signal on
PowerPC 603
TC(0-1) Transfer code, same as TC signal on PowerPC 603
/TEA Transfer error acknowledge, same as TEA_ signal on PowerPC 603
/TS Transfer start signal, same as TS_ signal on PowerPC 603
TSIZ (0-2) Transfer size for the data transaction
TTYPE(0-4) Transfer type, same as TT signal on PowerPC 603
/WT Write-through, same as WT_ signal on PowerPC 603

SMotNC!!!!! Copied the X600 version by mistake, should be the same. Shoot me an email, you might enjoy having the reply and all. wink



edit: looks like I did the version you wanted, I had TAM on my mind, that's be 6360/6400/5400, IIRC.

p.s. could you post, smaller pics with links to the big honkin' ones, redraws take a bit-o-time this end.

.

Last edited by jt (2014-10-03 19:22:18)

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#5 2014-10-03 19:35:11

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

can you scan it as a graphic? that unformatted text is playing havok on my eye floaters and making me go dyslexic or something.

BTW the pictures are a direct upload to dropbox from my phone. then attached here. I dont know how to thumbnail/edit/etc. I just post and go.

Last edited by techknight (2014-10-03 19:40:01)

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#6 2014-10-03 19:58:10

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,404

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

techknight wrote:

can you scan it as a graphic?

lol No.






<  wonders why he hasn't received an email to reply to with .pdwhtsis attachments?  roll  >

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#7 2014-10-03 20:18:13

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

I did sent you an email. Check your spambox.

Last edited by techknight (2014-10-03 20:19:02)

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#8 2014-10-03 20:24:43

Eudimorphodon
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 525

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

Just FYI, if you google "Apple 6400 developer note" the third hit down is probably what you want. (Fourth hit is the "service source", and those are pretty useless.)

(Actually, if you poke around the site that takes you to you can find a 5500/6500 specific one too. Pinout looks the same in either case.)

Last edited by Eudimorphodon (2014-10-03 20:29:00)


Flap Different.

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#9 2014-10-03 20:34:31

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,404

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

tongue

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#10 2014-10-03 20:53:04

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

I googled 6500 developer note and came up empty. Regardless,  I got the note now.

Hopefully I can fix this card.

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#11 2014-10-03 23:34:36

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

Tried without the cache RAM in place, and no dice. froze on the extension load.

So one more thing to try before removing all the chips is putting the cache back into place, and fixing the trace.

If no dice there, then i will remove the RAM again, along with the processor and make sure everything is connected to the CPU.

Then put the new cache and CPU onto the card, try again ;-)

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#12 2014-10-04 05:51:14

ClassicHasClass
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From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,089
Website

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

What you're essentially trying to do is make a 740 out of a 750, and I don't know if that's possible with external signals.

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#13 2014-10-05 00:03:25

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

740 out of a 750? so that means it requires cache before the CPU can boot and run instructions?

I feel stoopid. Enlighten me ;-)

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#14 2014-10-05 01:26:10

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,089
Website

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

Well, in a manner of speaking, yeah. There is no L2 cache for the L1 cache to fetch instructions from, and it doesn't know how to go to memory from there, so it fails.

I did pull what technical docs I have on the 750, and it appears that the L2 is "optional," so you may be able to force this after all. I don't have the pinout, though, and it's going to be a pig without L2.

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#15 2014-10-05 02:47:30

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

Well according to the datasheet i looked up, there is a bit in a register you have to set to enable/disable the L2 cache. plus the proper init procedures for it. This is at the processor level, processor registers.

my guess is the Sonnet extension is probably enabling the L2 cache and boom crash.

Last edited by techknight (2014-10-05 02:50:17)

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#16 2014-10-05 03:33:47

ClassicHasClass
Member
From: Electron Alley
Registered: 2014-05-26
Posts: 1,089
Website

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

You'll probably have to hack the extension to enable the CPU but not turn on the L2, because otherwise the 603e will be used. However, I still suspect that's not the full story, because you've got floating backside bus lines and that can't be too stable. trag would know the answer there.

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#17 2014-10-05 14:18:20

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

Well one of the vias was rotted to a data pin on one of the cache RAMs. And, its broken continuity wise.

So, that means every 64-bit longword going in and out of that chip would have 1 bit wrong.

I know that was likely the issue among possible others. I figured just removing the cache ram would solve my issue until I replaced it. but nope.

Last edited by techknight (2014-10-05 14:20:21)

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#18 2014-10-06 23:26:01

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

I put the L2 back in place, and fixed the trace. Same thing.. hmmmmm... Not sure what to think at this point.

Maybe the little CPLD is bad, or there is a BAD CPU, or break under the CPU.

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#19 2014-10-07 19:05:14

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

Mission failed. I removed the CPU BGA and noticed some board damage under the BGA. Bubbled/popcorned.

With that, it is unrepairable. Was worth a shot I guess.

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#20 2014-10-08 23:39:45

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,404

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

Is there any way to hot-rod the slower versions via your proposed processes. I have a few! neutral

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#21 2014-10-09 11:42:43

techknight
Member
Registered: 2014-05-22
Posts: 449

Re: Repairing a Sonnet G3/L2 500Mhz card (attempting)

Possibly.

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