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#1 2014-07-22 15:16:51

mcdermd
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From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 946
Website

Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

I figure maybe someone would know something about this -

I know that the original Lisa and Lisa 2/5 had the Lisa mouse with the thin button and sculpted edges to match the keyboard but which mouse shipped with Lisa 2/10? Which with Mac XL? Did they switch to the Mac 128k mouse with the chunky DB-9 or did they stay with the thin-button Lisa mouse?


Daily Drivers: 27" iMac 2.8 GHz Quad-Core i7 (Late 2009), 21.5" iMac 2.7GHz Quad-Core i5 (Late 2013), 11" Macbook Air 1.6 GHz i5 (Mid-2011)
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#2 2014-07-22 16:45:04

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,391

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

Dunno that answer, but if I run across the SunRe catalog I can take a look at the pics. Someone with magazine ads might be able to determine the meeces pieces spec. If their LMacintosh XL gots Lisa rodent, the whole run probably has the original.

AHA! smile   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE5e8NGfElE

I soptted the buttons of the XL mouse(?) in this comparison vid. It's linked at the end of the TAM hack vid oP posted.

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/to … n-tam-mod/

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#3 2014-07-22 17:27:59

ScutBoy
Member
Registered: 2014-05-25
Posts: 156

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

I've never seen a Lisa2/Mac XL that had the "Lisa" mouse, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I'd speculate that once Mac mouse production started, they just went with those since they were electrically compatible; might as well just make one.

I'll post up to the LisaList and see if the collective there has any answers.

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#4 2014-07-22 17:35:45

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,391

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

Interesting, did they swap the KBD out for the Mac production model as well? I'm suddenly curious about the Command Key, did the Lisa have it, did they do a KeyCap change?

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#5 2014-07-22 21:11:42

mcdermd
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From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 946
Website

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

The keyboards are completely different right down to the cable connection. Lisa has the "Apple" key, not the "command" cloverleaf. There is no "Control" key.


Daily Drivers: 27" iMac 2.8 GHz Quad-Core i7 (Late 2009), 21.5" iMac 2.7GHz Quad-Core i5 (Late 2013), 11" Macbook Air 1.6 GHz i5 (Mid-2011)
See the restored heroes here.

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#6 2014-07-22 21:17:40

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,391

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

I figured as much, my favorite compact ADB KBD is the chickletized IIgs that has both markings on that particular key. I've always had an idle curiosity about Apple's pre-ADB KBD interfaces, were any of them ever just POASCII?

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#7 2014-07-22 21:37:46

mcdermd
Member
From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 946
Website

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

Mine is a Lisa 2/10 but sold after the switch to Mac XL:
235e2u.jpg

There is no screen mod kit or anything.

The other issue I have is the screen adjustment. I set it up so that the grid in LisaDraw is actually square but lot of photos I see show Lisas with the screen stretched to fill the glass instead. This would result in flat rectangles instead of a square grid. I'm wondering which way it should be.

Mine:
15i2gch.jpg

Theirs:
25oyzvt.png


Daily Drivers: 27" iMac 2.8 GHz Quad-Core i7 (Late 2009), 21.5" iMac 2.7GHz Quad-Core i5 (Late 2013), 11" Macbook Air 1.6 GHz i5 (Mid-2011)
See the restored heroes here.

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#8 2014-07-23 14:04:13

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,391

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

WYSIWYG wink

Most Mac screens you'll see exhibit similar image maladjustment.

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#9 2014-07-23 14:35:20

ScutBoy
Member
Registered: 2014-05-25
Posts: 156

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

mcdermd - My Lisas suffer from the same issue, some more, some less. I don't know if it's an artifact of all the video circuit components overall showing their age and contributing to the degradation in screen geometry vs. filling the CRT face with an image.

I've compromised and made the image fill the screen face as large as I can without very obvious distortion of the items on the screen, and not worry so much about whether circles are exactly round or squares slightly rectangular. If it "looks good" I go with it smile

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#10 2014-07-23 20:26:08

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,391

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

How does the image appear in the old Lisa brochures/ads?

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#11 2014-07-24 01:55:48

mcdermd
Member
From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 946
Website

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

When it's not pasted on in post? It is pretty much the same ratio as the cutout size.

These snaps at DigiBarn look about like the ratio mine is currently adjusted to, with a squared-up grid:

http://www.digibarn.com/collections/software/lisa/


Daily Drivers: 27" iMac 2.8 GHz Quad-Core i7 (Late 2009), 21.5" iMac 2.7GHz Quad-Core i5 (Late 2013), 11" Macbook Air 1.6 GHz i5 (Mid-2011)
See the restored heroes here.

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#12 2014-07-24 19:24:58

jt
Member
From: Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 1,391

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

What good is a GUI that ain't graphically correct? I'd look at the Alto's screen, its FPD aspect ratio is likely 11:8.5 +- a menu bar at a higher pixel count than the Lisa, its much younger, but very pixel poor inbred cousin.

< makes the duck go >

AYUP! big_smile

http://research-srv.microsoft.com/en-us … 5-Alto.pdf

Alto did 875 interlaced lines @ 30 lines/sec. with 808 visible lines and 608 picture elements/line, a tad better than VGA's 800x600 and much closer to the Macintosh Portrait Display's 640x870 than the Lisa's piddling little 720x364 is to the 832x624 of the Macintosh 16-in Color Display

Not bad for a GUI setup born 5 years before the Lisa went into development and a full decade before the MacHammer hit the projection screen!  wink




http://www.mjposner.com/LISA.pdf mentions:

Schematic of the Apple Lisa 512k Ram board
This is a reverse engineered
schematic of the Apple Lisa 512k Ram board. Included are
instructions for upgrading it to 2Mb (lots of
work). Re-uploaded 90/01/10 in MacDraw II
format.

Last edited by jt (2014-07-24 19:29:17)

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#13 2014-07-26 01:16:48

Mk.558
Member
Registered: 2014-07-08
Posts: 160

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

I take it this aforementioned Lisa is also in the same proximity as a NeXT box, a Mac mini 2,something and a computer chassis assembly of some kind? tongue


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Classic Mac Networking v3.1 http://applefool.com/se30/
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#14 2014-07-26 02:58:56

mcdermd
Member
From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 946
Website

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

Yup. Sorry I missed you tonight. I don't know why I hadn't checked my phone messages but I had kid duty in the afternoon so the wife could have some dental work done. Apparently, you found someone still at the office.


Daily Drivers: 27" iMac 2.8 GHz Quad-Core i7 (Late 2009), 21.5" iMac 2.7GHz Quad-Core i5 (Late 2013), 11" Macbook Air 1.6 GHz i5 (Mid-2011)
See the restored heroes here.

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#15 2014-07-26 19:13:32

Mk.558
Member
Registered: 2014-07-08
Posts: 160

Re: Lisa Mouses and Screen Ratios

I figured it would happen sooner or later. But I also goofed because I forgot to bring some stuff to drop off. *sigh*


SE/30 Cap Replacement http://tinyurl.com/mjf24zs
Classic Mac Networking v3.1 http://applefool.com/se30/
"Linux assumes you know exactly what you are doing." -oboedad55, ubuntuforums.org

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